2017-09-08, 10:53
2017-09-11, 06:39
(2017-09-08, 10:53)deathbringer Wrote:(2017-09-05, 21:14)VonMagnum Wrote: Have you tried letting KODI convert to PCM 7.1-channel output instead? (i.e. it decodes it and sends it over HDMI as PCM instead)
Could do that, but that would not be bitstreaming, therefore Dolby Atmos and DTS:X wouldn't work anymore.
Just talk the developers here into decoding that for you too.
(none of that is relevant to the actual lossless vs. lossy argument I was making). They could have included DD+ tracks that could carry 7.1 (with Atmos/X) without requiring HRA or whatever, but I'm sure they considered it redundant given they expect you to watch the movie on a BD player, not KODI.
2017-09-14, 12:21
(2017-09-11, 06:39)VonMagnum Wrote: Just talk the developers here into decoding that for you too.
I don't get your point, you are mixing up Dolby and DTS formats. It is possible to pack a Dolby Atmos track into a Dolby TrueHD (lossless) or a Dolby Digital+ (lossy) stream and it is possible to have DTS:X in a DTS HD Master Audio (lossless) or a DTS HD High Resolution Audio (lossy) stream. This discussion is not about lossless or lossy encoded audio. And what would be the point in letting Kodi decode Dolby Atmos or DTS.X into PCM, there's just no way you can pass 7.1.4 in PCM to the receiver. Are you even familiar with the concept of Dolby Atmos and DTS:X? Even if it was possible to get decoded 7.1.4 to the receiver, for Kodi to be able to do that, it would need the whole information about the speaker layout and speaker positions to properly be able to decode the audio objects from the Dolby Atmos or DTS:X stream. In my opinion that's not for Kodi to do.
I have a Dolby Atmos and DTS:X capable receiver and 4 speakers on my ceiling in my dedicated home cinema room, so it makes a huge difference for me.
2017-09-17, 07:26
(2017-09-02, 14:05)deathbringer Wrote:(2017-08-18, 06:49)VonMagnum Wrote: People are getting screwed for now? There would have to be an audible difference first to get screwed. Fortunately, I've yet to see any credible indication that there is any audible differences between Core and Master Audio. As far as I'm concerned, it's a marketing gimmick.
Well, since there's only 5.1 supported in the core, I'm missing out on the two rear channels from the 7.1 DTS HRA, how's that for starters?
This is where I pointed out he/you can use PCM decoding in KODI for 7.1 HRA titles. You then said:
(2017-09-08, 10:53)deathbringer Wrote:(2017-09-05, 21:14)VonMagnum Wrote: Have you tried letting KODI convert to PCM 7.1-channel output instead? (i.e. it decodes it and sends it over HDMI as PCM instead)
Could do that, but that would not be bitstreaming, therefore Dolby Atmos and DTS:X wouldn't work anymore.
Show me a SINGLE TITLE with *HRA* that has DTS:X on it! We ARE talking about HRA here, not DTS Master Audio (which the original poster said ALREADY WORKED as well as Dolby TrueHD and both Dolby Atmos and DTS:X). The original poster was ONLY referring to HRA not being recognized by bitstream.
Thus, he has two choices. For 5.1 and even 6.1 titles with HRA, he can bitstream the DTS core instead (are there actually any HRA 7.1 titles? I only have one title with HRA and it's Basic Instinct which has a 6.1 ES core which DOES work even over lowly Toslink). Even if there are 7.1 HRA titles, I believe PCM (his other option) works with 7.1 and so he's got two viable solutions. So unless there's some DTS:X titles that are encoded in DTS HRA (I know of NONE), you have no point at all since he can already bitstream DTS Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD titles already as he indicated in the original post.
My other point was in regards to using the DTS core instead of HRA in that I have yet to see any double blind test evidence that anyone can reliably tell regular DTS 5.1 from DTS Master Audio 5.1 (let alone HRA which is still lossy, from regular DTS). That is referring to the lossy encoding versus lossless, not the number of channels. He can retain both the quality and the channels by using PCM output for those titles only. If they do not include 7.1, he can bitstream the core (and ES 6.1 extension as well).
2017-09-20, 18:34
(2017-09-17, 07:26)VonMagnum Wrote: Show me a SINGLE TITLE with *HRA* that has DTS:X on it! We ARE talking about HRA here, not DTS Master Audio (which the original poster said ALREADY WORKED as well as Dolby TrueHD and both Dolby Atmos and DTS:X). The original poster was ONLY referring to HRA not being recognized by bitstream.Jason Bourne, Fifty Shades Darker and AFAIK Fate Of The Furious have DTS:X inside DTS-HD HRA (also see http://surround-sound.info/dtsx/dtsx-fil...-ray-dach/), and for the first two I can confirm that DTS:X is not working, again I'm only getting the DTS core.
(2017-09-17, 07:26)VonMagnum Wrote: Thus, he has two choices. For 5.1 and even 6.1 titles with HRA, he can bitstream the DTS core instead (are there actually any HRA 7.1 titles? I only have one title with HRA and it's Basic Instinct which has a 6.1 ES core which DOES work even over lowly Toslink). Even if there are 7.1 HRA titles, I believe PCM (his other option) works with 7.1 and so he's got two viable solutions. So unless there's some DTS:X titles that are encoded in DTS HRA (I know of NONE), you have no point at all since he can already bitstream DTS Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD titles already as he indicated in the original post.Well, I have 19 titles with HRA (some have 7.1), among them are Star Wars 7 (DTS-HD HRA 7.1), The Junge Book, Need For Speed, Saw (DTS-HD HRA 7.1), ...
If there was a way to only decode HRA and bitstream every other format, I'd be happy to set it up that way, but I didn't come across such a setting. I can only select DTS-HD, if I deactivate that DTS-HD MA won't bitstream anymore also.
If you could describe how to set this up permanently (I don't want to go check and change settings every time), I'd be very grateful.
2017-09-21, 01:49
I have no idea why they would put DTS:X inside HRA. It's not like there isn't room for Master Audio on Blu-Rays. Maybe they need to cut down on all the gazillion foreign language tracks if they can't fit one lossless one.
It would be a GREAT idea for KODI to allow more customized settings on HOW it doles out the various surround decoding functions for more specific instances like that (even if it had to be inserted into the advanced.xml file). I have an older DD/DTS decoder (Technics outboard SH-AC500D) that can't instantaneously lock onto a signal. This means even with the newer IEC packets, I STILL get NOISE from passthrough if I leave the audio device ON all the time. If I don't leave it on, then I miss the first second or two of a music song. Why instead don't they just deactivate the audio device ONLY just before starting playback of a movie or video file and then kick it back on the same as if it were set to go OFF, but if music files are used leave it on at all times? That would fix all my problems here and as far as I'm concerned, that would worth 1000x its weight in gold compared to what seems to me to be utterly pointless "timer" settings, but when I suggest things like that, I either get ignored or in one case a developer told me he wouldn't look into it because I once insulted him once years ago so.... oh well.
So it seems sometimes (most of the time?) good ideas around here get FLUSHED for very poor reasons as far as I can tell. Basically, it seems like if the developers aren't having a problem with THEIR setups, they don't really care about your problems (they'll tell you to fix it yourself; they're waiting on your code). Hey, if I was a programmer, I'd be right on something like that. I used to make pinball games with VPinball and Visual Basic and things like that would be a quick fix. An extra preference option? Piece of cake. Getting a GROUP of people to agree on something? I tried to team up with other developers before and it was a NIGHTMARE. People don't agree on the color of the sky, even, it seems so I'm not surprised that things get changed around or features excluded.
As for Star Wars 7, I have the 3D Limited Blu-Ray here and I'm pretty certain it was Master Audio 7.1 not HRA. I had never seen HRA until Basic Instinct that I can recall. Here is says the same: http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Star-Wars-...ay/141431/ (7.1 Master Audio) unless you have some foreign version or something? Saw is listed as DTS-ES 6.1 (DTS-ES works fine over bitstreaming or PCM). The Jungle Book is 7.1 Master Audio, not HRA. So is Need For Speed (all according to www.blu-ray.com which DOES show HRA for Basic Instinct so it's not like they don't list it. Fifty Shades Darker says 7.1 Master Audio with DTS:X on Blu-ray.com; again no HRA mentioned (same for Jason Bourne and Fate and the Furious). I don't see a single HRA title out of the bunch. Now I'm not saying the site is 100% accurate, but I can only compare titles I own like The Force Awakens. It's definitely Master Audio here. Yes, you would have to switch to PCM or core for HRA titles only, but at least you'd get something for now. KODI will remember which soundtrack you select, at least (i.e. I always include a Dolby Digital mix for AppleTV sake even if I don't use it most of the time). That's not good for 6.1 and above, but some playback is better than no playback. For the one HRA title I have, (Basic Instinct), I simply left out the HRA encode and used the DTS-ES 6.1 discrete version and it works just fine through bistreaming).
It would be a GREAT idea for KODI to allow more customized settings on HOW it doles out the various surround decoding functions for more specific instances like that (even if it had to be inserted into the advanced.xml file). I have an older DD/DTS decoder (Technics outboard SH-AC500D) that can't instantaneously lock onto a signal. This means even with the newer IEC packets, I STILL get NOISE from passthrough if I leave the audio device ON all the time. If I don't leave it on, then I miss the first second or two of a music song. Why instead don't they just deactivate the audio device ONLY just before starting playback of a movie or video file and then kick it back on the same as if it were set to go OFF, but if music files are used leave it on at all times? That would fix all my problems here and as far as I'm concerned, that would worth 1000x its weight in gold compared to what seems to me to be utterly pointless "timer" settings, but when I suggest things like that, I either get ignored or in one case a developer told me he wouldn't look into it because I once insulted him once years ago so.... oh well.
So it seems sometimes (most of the time?) good ideas around here get FLUSHED for very poor reasons as far as I can tell. Basically, it seems like if the developers aren't having a problem with THEIR setups, they don't really care about your problems (they'll tell you to fix it yourself; they're waiting on your code). Hey, if I was a programmer, I'd be right on something like that. I used to make pinball games with VPinball and Visual Basic and things like that would be a quick fix. An extra preference option? Piece of cake. Getting a GROUP of people to agree on something? I tried to team up with other developers before and it was a NIGHTMARE. People don't agree on the color of the sky, even, it seems so I'm not surprised that things get changed around or features excluded.
As for Star Wars 7, I have the 3D Limited Blu-Ray here and I'm pretty certain it was Master Audio 7.1 not HRA. I had never seen HRA until Basic Instinct that I can recall. Here is says the same: http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Star-Wars-...ay/141431/ (7.1 Master Audio) unless you have some foreign version or something? Saw is listed as DTS-ES 6.1 (DTS-ES works fine over bitstreaming or PCM). The Jungle Book is 7.1 Master Audio, not HRA. So is Need For Speed (all according to www.blu-ray.com which DOES show HRA for Basic Instinct so it's not like they don't list it. Fifty Shades Darker says 7.1 Master Audio with DTS:X on Blu-ray.com; again no HRA mentioned (same for Jason Bourne and Fate and the Furious). I don't see a single HRA title out of the bunch. Now I'm not saying the site is 100% accurate, but I can only compare titles I own like The Force Awakens. It's definitely Master Audio here. Yes, you would have to switch to PCM or core for HRA titles only, but at least you'd get something for now. KODI will remember which soundtrack you select, at least (i.e. I always include a Dolby Digital mix for AppleTV sake even if I don't use it most of the time). That's not good for 6.1 and above, but some playback is better than no playback. For the one HRA title I have, (Basic Instinct), I simply left out the HRA encode and used the DTS-ES 6.1 discrete version and it works just fine through bistreaming).
2017-09-21, 12:15
I'm located in germany, so almost all of my Blu-rays are the german versions.
2017-09-22, 01:25
(2017-09-21, 12:15)deathbringer Wrote: I'm located in germany, so almost all of my Blu-rays are the german versions.
I guess that would explain it. I just verified there are HRA DTS:X discs even here, but far and few between (that may change). I never even heard of HRA until a few months ago.
