[digitaltomj]

Firstly, Transparency is the most intuitive and elegant skin for XBMC...plus it looks the best...However, after using this skin for quite a while I noticed myself having to use workarounds for simple menu navigation and interface functions, and I thought if I shared my thoughts it may help Transparency become even better (and make XBMC more accessible) for the less computer educated. I am kinda mid-range...I can't code any of the suggestions I have, but I do have an eye for functionality. so please consider them...Btw, just in case, I didn't know if I should be posting this in the Skin Development forum or on here, but since my suggestions are Transparency specific, I decided to post them here.

One of the first things I think that could really improve a new user's experience would be a stable heading outside of the home screen. This might be a positive thing when in windowed mode, but in full screen or kiosk mode this is a major downfall...the right hand side of the main header from the home screen should be implanted (time, search, power, and a some new buttons such as a "now playing," a "back," and a "forward" function should be added to the header as well, this header should be shown on the right hand side of all menu pages.
Basically what I'm saying is:

1. Include the header from the home screen (minus the XBMC logo to make room for a menu page title heading) on every menu.
   
2. Add an option to switch to "now playing" (the button from mini player) next to search function on all menu pages
   
3. Add a "Backward" and "Forward" button in the heading so that new users can navigate a bit more intuitively between menu pages as they do in their opperatings systems...I know there are ways to preform this with keyboard shutcuts and/or mouse clicks, but the new user will not understand that or might forget which button to press, so a more GUI option I think would be a great addition.

Here is a pic of what I am talking about:

I think the header would be great and could also be transparent

Next is the playback interface...The "Media" bar should take the place of the mini player during video playback (closer to the way it does in music playback). Either the "Media" and "Info" bars should be merged into one "Super Info" bar, or there needs to be more of a distinction between the two. I think the community would prefer to keep the two seperate bars, and if so, they must be further specialized to eliminate the major redundancies. Currently, much of it is redundant, redundant enough that the average person might forget how to find the few specialized features on the two seperate bars...right now, the only reason one has to look at the "Info" bar is to look at the Cast, Plot, or Chapter info, and all other info is found in the "Media" bar. So, the "Media" bar should be more of a control interface during video play back, and "Info" should be the information source.

1. Remove all format tags from the "Media" bar, they are in the "Info" bar (maybe keep the resolution and rating tags)
   
2. Add "Replay" and "Suffle" comands (from mini player) on the "media" bar during playback
   
3. Move the "XBMC Subtitles" button into the "Audio and subtitles" menu to save room on the bar.
   
4. Make the "Plot" and "Cast" buttons on the "info" bar bigger so they are seen easier by new users

Media bar


Info bar


And for fun, here is what the Superbar would look like:


Often I find myself needing to backup my Movie collection and not my TV library...what I do is export the whole video library and when it gets to the TV section I just hit cancel, but since XBMC sees these as two seperate libraries to begin with, I think there should be two seperate functions to export them, clearly marked "Export Movie Library", and "Export TV Library"...another thing that is very anoying is that there is no way to export video bookmarks...being as these have to be user created in the first place and are not scrapable (altho I asked for an add-on to do this a while ago and it could still be done if only someone would try ) But sice these are made by hand so to speak they are even more precious than the scrapeable information...and there really needs to be a way to export them...possibly save them into a txt or xml format so they could be edited by the user outside of the program...I did notice something about bookmarks and a watch counter in the NFOs, but I noticed that if XBMC is deleted and reinstalled (although the files are not touched) the play count resets.

1. Seperate buttons to export Movie libary and TV libarary
   
2. Add option to back up movie bookmarks
   
3. Add option to export Watched/Unwatched list

PS:
Add option to watch a movie trailer in the right click/context menu

Also, just in case, here are the links to the psd files with layers for the above images:
Header
Infobar
Mediabar
Superbar

[PatK]

Interesting ideas, I look forward to trying your skin mod.. Note: your images didn't resolve in the message.. so I assume the links at the bottom are what you're referencing?

A picture is worth 1000 words..

[ronie]

hey digitaltomj, thanx a bunch for taking the time to write down all your suggestion.

it's ideas from the community that made T! the skin as we currently know it.
without it...well...i was more than happy with the first ever version of Transparency! i made as it suited my needs.
looking back, it was pretty ugly and lacking a lot of bells and whistles we have today.

so thanx to everyone for pushing it to the next level over and over again.

1. Include the header from the home screen (minus the XBMC logo to make room for a menu page title heading) on every menu.
   
2. Add an option to switch to "now playing" (the button from mini player) next to search function on all menu pages
   
3. Add a "Backward" and "Forward" button in the heading so that new users can navigate a bit more intuitively between menu pages as they do in their opperatings systems.

i won't deny it would make navigation easier for first time users. no doubt about it.
but would it really pay off to add buttons for navigation to the gui?
personally, i'd rather not 'clutter' the inteface with (imo) needless buttons.
how hard can it be to press the 'back button on your keyboard / remote to navigate back...

it's not possible to navigate 'forward' in xbmc btw. a fullscreen button would make some sense,
but preferably be only visible when you're action playing some content... it have no use otherwise.

your mockup, using the fanart view, look ok to me, but i wonder how it would translate to other views,
like the list view or the media info view. we already have a top header in those view, with little to no room to add extra items.

have you ever tried the 'touchscreen option in T!? you can find it in skin settings
and adds a few buttons to the top of the screen, amongs them, the requested 'back' and 'fullscreen'.

1. Remove all format tags from the "Media" bar, they are in the "Info" bar (maybe keep the resolution and rating tags)
   
2. Add "Replay" and "Suffle" comands (from mini player) on the "media" bar during playback
   
3. Move the "XBMC Subtitles" button into the "Audio and subtitles" menu to save room on the bar.
   
4. Make the "Plot" and "Cast" buttons on the "info" bar bigger so they are seen easier by new users

i did add shuffle and repeat on request a week or two ago, it's available in T! svn and will be included in the next release.

adding xbmc subtitles to the audio and subtitles window is not possible. the contents of that window are filled by xbmc,
without the skin having any influence on it.
iirc someone suggested something similar within the team, so who knows one day we might actually move it there.

as for your other osd suggestions, by moving the media flags to the top, you leave little room for long movie titles,
so i don't think it's a good idea. also keep in mind, there are some additional buttons on the osd that conditionally show
depending on the source, your hardware, xbmc version. so what appears as free space may already be taken by some hidden buttons.
for instance, we have a record button, teletext button, dvd menu button and a couple of pvr related ones.
the may not be available on your setup, but they will be there for others.

same thing for the music osd. when listening the last.fm radio, a 'love' and a 'hate' button will show up...and so on

1. Seperate buttons to export Movie libary and TV libarary
   
2. Add option to back up movie bookmarks
   
3. Add option to export Watched/Unwatched list

hmm.. none of those funcions are available in xbmc.
and what xbmc doesn't support, the skin can't show :-)

edit:
if i'm not mistaken you can export/import the watched state.
i think you'll find the option in advanced settings.

cheers,
ronie

[digitaltomj]

Thanks ronie, your response made a lot of sense. I just want to clarify a few things if thats ok.

a fullscreen button would make some sense,
but preferably be only visible when you're action playing some content... it have no use otherwise

I think you mistook my "now playing" button for a fullscreen button...I can understand why because the icon is a bit ambiguous, however it is the same icon as the now playing function in the mini player, also if you are playing a movie, and you enter into the menu screen and then go back all the way to the home screen, you can just click on the video to remove the home screen menu interface, but, if you are playing music and you get to the home screen menu interface, clicking the visualization does nothing and the menu interface stays there and one is not allowed to do tasks like get info on a song being played...I know if you just let the music play out, it will eventually automatically bring you back to the "Now playing" media screen...but I just find it easier to move away from the home screen and get into a sub menu screen, then I can press "m" and bring up the mini player, and then I can press the "now playing" button...but that is something my grandma would never think of doing and is one of the things im talking about with users new to xbmc and computers in general

I was thinking that in the header the "now playing" button could be faded when nothing is playing and also that the entire header itself could be either transparent or stretch along the top like the home screen header does, I made it as small as possible so that it was minimally intrusive...and I showed it with fan art because you want as little as possible to take away from the fan art, especially in T, and I think it still works nicely, and it would look even better if the header could be transparent too...(I just couldnt do that well in photoshop so I left it opaque.)

have you ever tried the 'touchscreen option in T!? you can find it in skin settings
and adds a few buttons to the top of the screen, amongs them, the requested 'back' and 'fullscreen'.

I like the idea of a "fullscreen" button, and the buttons that you mentioned in touchscreen mode are great...although, they might be better if they didn't stand out as much and looked more like the trailer button in fan art view, so transparent instead of a blue background color...also when in touch screen mode you cant see the mouse icon...which seems like a mistake for two reasons:

1. If you want to use the buttons for easier navigation with a mouse on a non touchscreen high end TV or projector...you cant
   
2. If you can't see your mouse on a touch screen you will never know if your touchscreen needs to be calibrated...you can only guess if its off, but someppl might just think that the mode or program is to blame rather than recalibrating the screen.
   

Either way, I think a header would be a great option for the fanart view and even more so for the basic sub menus...especially a "search" and "now playing" button...actually the one thing I would love to see most out of all my suggestions is a search button in every sub menu screen...I have a lot of media and it can take too long to find things at times.

i did add shuffle and repeat on request a week or two ago, it's available in T! svn and will be included in the next release.

I cant wait, that will make watching tv shows much easier

I see the potential of xbmc taking the place of all set top boxes, cable boxes, bluray players... basically, I see HTPCs with XBMC on it to replay all equipment (except for speakers) besides a tv...the only real thing standing between my idea and reality is that currently xbmc puts too much emphasis on the power user (which is great if you are one, but not if you are not)...we need more emphasis on the average user while still maintaining that power usability...leave the shortcuts, but add to the GUI so that anything you want to do, can be done with only arrows, the enter button, and a right click/context button...that way, any remote is compatible with XBMC and any one with the ability to use those 6 buttons can use xbmc the way it is meant to be used.

I love the work you and the XBMC team have put in. I am a true fan and I look forward to the new stuff.