[peebs]

I'm not a fan of your switch to a for profit venture, RagnaroktA. That was never the spirit of my original slides, nor in keeping with the spirit of XBMC or Cinema Experience itself.

I can appreciate the desire to get something from the work you've put into this, but requesting "donations" and locking down your website to only those who donate is disingenuous at best, and bordering on criminal at worst, considering the majority of the design (my template that borrowed liberally from NTN) and content (AMC's online movie trivia) has been re-purposed from others.

This is reminiscent of "Steven Good", who pays no royalties to The Coca-Cola Company, but has the audacity to charge people for slides based around their logo and brand recognition.

This isn't what's best for the community.

[Ragnarok]

I'm not a fan of your switch to a for profit venture, RagnaroktA. That was never the spirit of my original slides, nor in keeping with the spirit of XBMC or Cinema Experience itself.

I can appreciate the desire to get something from the work you've put into this, but requesting "donations" and locking down your website to only those who donate is disingenuous at best, and bordering on criminal at worst, considering the majority of the design (my template that borrowed liberally from NTN) and content (AMC's online movie trivia) has been re-purposed from others.

This is reminiscent of "Steven Good", who pays no royalties to The Coca-Cola Company, but has the audacity to charge people for slides based around their logo and brand recognition.

This isn't what's best for the community.

I've been trying to keep this quiet, but I'd like to quell the negativity here. The switch to 'for profit' was made a bit prematurely so that myself and Kevin (creator of HT SlideVision) could fund a joint project. For the past week I've been working on creating a single website where all of our content can live, and be easily obtained by any Home Theater community. I needed to raise some money to pay for the domain, hosting, etc. We're still working out the details. While there will probably be some kind of subscription based donation in there somehow, it will just be to pay for the storage and central website. The content will largely be free, with the possible exception of the video content, animated slide content and any service we plan to offer through the website such as physical DVD media of slideshows for those people who do not have an XBMC HTPC with Cinema Experience.

It's never been about a desire to get something from the work I've put into creating all of the content. Personally, I'm running very low on free space on my Google Drive. Since I don't want to be out of pocket on the cost for storage (the wife would probably murder me) for all of the current and future content, there will always come a point when I have to force some donations. I'm trying to avoid that as much as possible. I know that Kevin pays for 35 gigabytes of storage out of pocket. I'm trying to help him get his costs down as well.

We've kicked around the idea of hosting content for other developers as well, but for now it will just be a combined effort of myself and Kevin creating new content for the community. Be assured that any donations that go to the new project will be split between all of those who contribute something to the project, including the XBMC team. That's something I'm not currently doing when I get a donation. I just found out you could do that a week ago, and I can't do that on a Google Site because there's no support for the API.

I wholly disagree that this is not what is best for the community, but I can't fault you for your point of view because frankly - you didn't know what the plan was. I think one website where you can get anything you want for Cinema Experience is exactly what we need to do. We need to encourage developers to come together and create content, and get visibility. I think bringing together the two largest slide projects on the internet is a good start.

[kingart000]

You're not creating new content for "the community" anymore. You're creating new content only for your customers. You can't say there's something wrong with peeps point of view because he didn't know your plan. There's nothing wrong charging for a product, but don't say that stuff will be 100% free in the very fist post, only to link a site that charges for any download. Again, these are also downloads that are based on stuff you got from the community. I love XBMC and the community, and I've donated to the cause a few times over the last few years, but would I have bought it if that were the only way to get it? I'm not so sure.

Nobody wants to go into debt to provide content to the community. I get that. It just seems like there were other ways to get there. Reading through 20 pages of this thread shows a lot of people offering to help you for free, then you turn around and sell their help. I'm just glad I read peeps post before clicking that donate button on your site. (Also, you can't call it a donation if that's what unlocks download. It's a purchase or a paid subscription.) I have no problem with people charging for their work or whatever, but this particular case just seems... off.

[Ragnarok]

You're not creating new content for "the community" anymore. You're creating new content only for your customers.

Actually, I'm always creating new content for the community. If you'd read my post, you'd understand the model I'm moving towards still offers mostly free content. Only the latest content will require a donation once the new site is up and running - and even that is only to pay for the cost of hosting and storage - which will grow exponentially (as we release more and more content) with this new venture.

You can't say there's something wrong with peeps point of view because he didn't know your plan.

Here's what I said in my post...

I wholly disagree that this is not what is best for the community, but I can't fault you for your point of view because frankly - you didn't know what the plan was.

I didn't say there was anything wrong with his point of view. In fact, you just repeated what I said, so I'm not sure what the problem is here.

There's nothing wrong charging for a product, but don't say that stuff will be 100% free in the very fist post, only to link a site that charges for any download.

You're right about that. I rarely look at the first post in these threads anymore. I update the website instead. Thanks for the heads up. I've taken that blurb out of the first post. I didn't edit the post after I changed the website.

Again, these are also downloads that are based on stuff you got from the community.

All of my sets were created using templates that I designed and built from the ground up. The only thing the same (in some cases) is the data. Yes, the templates are similar, but the originals were not sized for Full HD, and needed some work to get them ready for prime time.

I love XBMC and the community, and I've donated to the cause a few times over the last few years, but would I have bought it if that were the only way to get it? I'm not so sure.

Again, this is a temporary measure to pay for the new project. Those who donate $15 now get a lifetime membership that gives them access to all current and future sets. Those who don't will have to wait to download new content, or donate to get it.

Nobody wants to go into debt to provide content to the community. I get that. It just seems like there were other ways to get there.

I left donations open and not required for 6 months. While I was getting an average of 40 hits (and about triple that in downloads) each day, I had a total of 9 donations over those 6 months. Two of them from the same person. I'd love to hear some ideas on how I can pay for this without forcing people to donate, without taking money out of pocket. I'm all ears.

Reading through 20 pages of this thread shows a lot of people offering to help you for free, then you turn around and sell their help.

There are two people who have helped develop my sets. Both of those people are involved in the new project. The new website will allow me to give them (and Team XBMC) a percentage of every single donation made - which having the content on a Google Site will not allow me to do.

I'm just glad I read peeps post before clicking that donate button on your site. (Also, you can't call it a donation if that's what unlocks download. It's a purchase or a paid subscription.) I have no problem with people charging for their work or whatever, but this particular case just seems... off.

Something tells me you read peebs post, but neglected to read mine. Given the selfish nature of your post - I'd bet you're one of those people who don't want to donate anything, and just want content for free because you feel that you're entitled to have it. If you truly wanted to further the development of the content you would have donated, at all, and I never got a donation from you when I was offering all of the content for free - or when I warned that I would have to start charging - or after I locked the content down to contributors only.

Before starting this venture, I was running low on storage on my Google Drive, and getting bandwidth warnings from the Google Site. The natural evolution is to move the website and content to a hosted server, which are not free. Unless you feel like being generous and buying me (read: the community) a year of hosting and storage for this content - I'm not really interested in your whining. The content we create is not created just for the XBMC community. We do this for any Home Theater enthusiast. The bottom line is - none of us have to do this. At all. Ever. We do it because we like doing it. I don't like charging for this content, but I have to in order to pay for the things that we absolutely have to have.

[kingart000]

Defensive much? Before you start calling me selfish, perhaps you should take a step back and see what kind of person you're being to someone from the outside. It's not pretty.

Did I donate to you? No. I didn't even know about your trivia package until today, thus I don't even have them. But HOW DARE YOU call me selfish and say that I get everything for free? I pay for practically every free site I use. XBMC, TheTVDB, Wikipedia, you name it. I don't even care that I've spent hundreds of hours working on entering data for sites like TheTVDB. I like to donate to anyone that has to pay for hosting for a cool community service.. You don't know me, so don't pretend like you do. I took the time to read all 20 pages before responding, and didn't see anything leading up to the "we're a subscription" site mentality. All I'm doing is simply saying that it does seem borderline shady to take other people's work and morph it into your own. (Also, before you accuse me of not reading your post, try reading mine. You tell me I am entitled, yet neglect to read the part where I explicitly mentioned donating to things in the past. XBMC, not your slides I had never heard of.)

I was considering offering you free hosting (or at least help contribute to your hosting to keep it free) until you acted like this. I have plenty of hosting that I pay for out of pocket for other community projects that does run me in the hundreds of dollars. I was even still considering subscribing to your service, again because I don't have problem paying for content. I do it all the time. Now you're just looking like someone I would never want to waste my money on.

Reply and call me a jerk if you want. I won't be checking back in.

[Ragnarok]

Defensive much? Before you start calling me selfish, perhaps you should take a step back and see what kind of person you're being to someone from the outside. It's not pretty.

I'm absolutely defensive about this. I've worked incredibly hard on this project and have literally spent 436 hours on the slides alone so far. That doesn't include the time it took to learn Photoshop or After Effects, nor the time it took to create the videos.

Did I donate to you? No. I didn't even know about your trivia package until today, thus I don't even have them. But HOW DARE YOU call me selfish and say that I get everything for free?

I said my impression of you was that you were that kind of person - you're welcome to prove me wrong.

I pay for practically every free site I use. XBMC, TheTVDB, Wikipedia, you name it. I don't even care that I've spent hundreds of hours working on entering data for sites like TheTVDB. I like to donate to anyone that has to pay for hosting for a cool community service.. You don't know me, so don't pretend like you do.

I don't pretend to know you, I simply gave you my impression of you. It's very clear that you did not read the message that is currently at the top of every single page on that website before posting.

I took the time to read all 20 pages before responding, and didn't see anything leading up to the "we're a subscription" site mentality.

All of the update messages saying "I'm running low on storage and bandwidth - please donate." were posted to the website, and again heeded very few donations - but hundreds of hits and downloads. Most of them sat in that bubble at the top of every page. One remains in the form of a news post.

All I'm doing is simply saying that it does seem borderline shady to take other people's work and morph it into your own.

I'm not entirely sure what specifically you're referring to here, but taking public domain trivia and facts that are not copywritten from the internet, a template that was built from the ground up in HD for each set by me, and offering the results on the internet for free until I simply could not anymore does not sound shady in the slightest. I think you have a skewed perspective.

(Also, before you accuse me of not reading your post, try reading mine. You tell me I am entitled, yet neglect to read the part where I explicitly mentioned donating to things in the past. XBMC, not your slides I had never heard of.)

That doesn't prove that you're spending all of this money donating. I've donated to the XBMC team and plenty of other places myself, but I don't throw it around because I don't care enough to prove it. If you truly read my post, you would know that what I'm doing is going to send donations automatically to the XBMC team every single time donation that comes through the new project. Get off your soap box.

I'll very gladly hook you up with my host if you want to shoulder some of this. I simply cannot do it - and instead of offering some solutions like my buddy Bryan (he goes by bry in this thread, if you've read it, you have seen it) who is trying to figure all of this out with me and help me keep it low cost or free - you're just flaming and whining about how it's shady. I (evidently unlike you) cannot afford to shoulder so much hosting and storage. I just paid for two cross country moves on a job gamble, and we're just starting to get back on our financial feet. All the while, I was offering all of the content for free instead of charging for it.

I was considering offering you free hosting (or at least help contribute to your hosting to keep it free) until you acted like this. I have plenty of hosting that I pay for out of pocket for other community projects that does run me in the hundreds of dollars. I was even still considering subscribing to your service, again because I don't have problem paying for content. I do it all the time.

Very simply - I don't believe you. If that were the case, you wuold have mentioned that in your first post instead of flaming. It would have immediately been "Hey, I know you're getting this new project up, what can I do to help?". I don't remember your post saying anything even alluding to helping. Point of fact: you referenced "a lot of people offering to help " offering to help me. Those two people were offering to help with the creation of slides and organization of content. They've done that, and continue to do that. They're both part of the new project.

Now you're just looking like someone I would never want to waste my money on.

I'm very sorry that you feel that way, but I still fail to understand your point of view. I think you absolutely have it wrong what's going on here. I'd wager that the second the new project comes online (and is paid for by generous donors - thank you very much to all who have donated to help us get this moving) that I'll see you register and download anything that's free, which will be most of the content - since I can't possibly fathom that the hundreds of people who have downloaded my content think the way you think. In fact - you're the only person complaining and not even trying to understand what's going on.

Reply and call me a jerk if you want. I won't be checking back in.

I don't think you're a jerk, necessarily. I think you're uninformed, have an inability to understand my position, and dare I say - an unwillingness to help. A part of me hopes you stick to your guns and don't check back in. I'd wager that's not going to happen, and you're going to continue to try to hijack this thread with negativity instead of offering up ideas and solutions like some of the other good folks who have PM'd me or donated directly to help me get the new site funded and operational.

Again, you're more than welcome to PM me so we can discuss.

[bry]

First off thanks to team xbmc for this amazing application that has brought all of us together here on the forums, second thanks to @nukka1195 for the initial version of the script HTE and to @giftie for taking over reigns and releasing what we are currently using cinema experience.

The back and forth about the subject of donations is moot at this point. For those of us that enjoy the work of @Ragnarokta, @gamephoeniz, and @peebs, etc. Why don’t we all try and figure out a way to encourage them to continue creating the slides we all would like to have so bad for our collections. We are all capable of contributing in one way or another.

I do not know how use photoshop/paint.net and am about as creative as the rock people bang their heads on when in a rut so I decided to encourage them by offering something that I have. I made a donation months ago when I discovered CE and began collecting as many slides as possible.

For members of the community I am trying to figure out the best way to give the slide creators a centralized location to store and/or serve their slide collections. I have only recently started discussing this with RagnaroktA so the plan is still in its infancy. The end goal is to make things easier for everybody as a whole. Some members of the community may have access to bandwidth/server/space etc. if willing to provide that would be amazing and nip this whole discussion in the butt. I believe a centralized storage location is the biggest issue at this point.

Everybody has the same end goal in mind and that is to have the best experience possible. So let’s all do our part to continue to encourage those of the community that spend their free time working on the projects that we all enjoy. So if you are able to offer support in one way or another or have any additional ideas it would be greatly appreciated and please reach out to RagnaroktA, Gamephoenix, and hopefully peebs in the future if everyone can find common ground to stand on. The sooner a solution is found the sooner the community can work together to improve, expand and increase their collections.

Thank you

[peebs]

Due to the other slides being behind a paywall, I'll post these links again for anyone looking for trivia slide content.

My trivia slides are available here, and will always be free (as in gratis, rather than libre) for everyone to enjoy:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tsm27761jwpn74...01-100.rar
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kr9dsepb3dun5b...01-200.rar
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ayeiu4j7xehvmh...01-300.rar
https://www.dropbox.com/s/spsm735alxbej8...01-355.rar

I'm more than happy to host other Cinema Experience content as well.

In my opinion, I see no reason the content itself needs to be centrally-hosted. There are plenty of free services out there that allow you to host a large amount of data. Dropbox, Skydrive, Google Drive, etc, and as long as those are aggregated in a centralized location, the community is well-served.

I think a thread on this forum would function just fine as a central hub for Cinema Experience content, so long as the original post is maintained and updated.

I can't think of any reason to create a website that puts content behind a paywall that doesn't involve an attempt to profit from the content. I have nothing against free enterprise, commerce, and capitalism. I just don't believe it aligns with the spirit of XBMC, Cinema Experience, and this particular community.

If anyone has any questions/comments/concerns, feel free to PM me, and I'll do my best to assist.

[Ragnarok]

Due to the other slides being behind a paywall, I'll post these links again for anyone looking for trivia slide content.

My trivia slides are available here, and will always be free (as in gratis, rather than libre) for everyone to enjoy:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tsm27761jwpn74...01-100.rar
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kr9dsepb3dun5b...01-200.rar
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ayeiu4j7xehvmh...01-300.rar
https://www.dropbox.com/s/spsm735alxbej8...01-355.rar

I'm more than happy to host other Cinema Experience content as well.

In my opinion, I see no reason the content itself needs to be centrally-hosted. There are plenty of free services out there that allow you to host a large amount of data. Dropbox, Skydrive, Google Drive, etc, and as long as those are aggregated in a centralized location, the community is well-served.

I think a thread on this forum would function just fine as a central hub for Cinema Experience content, so long as the original post is maintained and updated.

I can't think of any reason to create a website that puts content behind a paywall that doesn't involve an attempt to profit from the content. I have nothing against free enterprise, commerce, and capitalism. I just don't believe it aligns with the spirit of XBMC, Cinema Experience, and this particular community.

If anyone has any questions/comments/concerns, feel free to PM me, and I'll do my best to assist.

I've always had your slide set linked from my website for download as well. There are two reasons for centrally hosted content. The first, we're combining two large projects into one massive project. The second, I'm getting yelled at for bandwidth and storage by Google. The other problem with getting rid of a website for the content is that I'll have to update multiple posts instead of directing folks to a central location, and content organization in a thread is not nearly what you can do with a webpage. The content, while initially created for Cinema Experience, can be used by anyone with a home theater and a supported Blu-ray or DVD player.

The new home for the project is about 85% complete at this point. It's been paid for by the content creators, and the generous people of the community who donated to the project. Once it's up, we can move forward with creating all new content for the community. All of the content that was offered free of cost will be free of cost again. Contributors will immediately get access to any new content that is created. Those who have not contributed will have to wait until the new content becomes free. That's our way of thanking those who contribute to the project.

The new site will feature a mailing list for those in the community who want to be informed when new content is released, and polling to drive our focus towards content that the community wants to see released. The goal moving forward will be to get enough donations to pay for the website and hosting. Anything extra, while absolutely appreciated, is not required.

[peebs]

I've always had your slide set linked from my website for download as well. There are two reasons for centrally hosted content. The first, we're combining two large projects into one massive project. The second, I'm getting yelled at for bandwidth and storage by Google. The other problem with getting rid of a website for the content is that I'll have to update multiple posts instead of directing folks to a central location, and content organization in a thread is not nearly what you can do with a webpage. The content, while initially created for Cinema Experience, can be used by anyone with a home theater and a supported Blu-ray or DVD player.

The new home for the project is about 85% complete at this point. It's been paid for by the content creators, and the generous people of the community who donated to the project. Once it's up, we can move forward with creating all new content for the community. All of the content that was offered free of cost will be free of cost again. Contributors will immediately get access to any new content that is created. Those who have not contributed will have to wait until the new content becomes free. That's our way of thanking those who contribute to the project.

The new site will feature a mailing list for those in the community who want to be informed when new content is released, and polling to drive our focus towards content that the community wants to see released. The goal moving forward will be to get enough donations to pay for the website and hosting. Anything extra, while absolutely appreciated, is not required.

Looking through Kevin's thread on AVSForum is a great precursor as to what we can expect with this thread going forward. Begging for "donations", taking "pre-orders", and ultimately attempting to turn this into your own little enterprise.

Best of luck, and you may get the community to support your venture. However, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[Ragnarok]

I think you may have misread everything I've said here. There will be no begging for donations, or taking pre-orders for product. This project is not some sort of for-profit enterprise, but rather a way to bring two big content creators together to create new content for the community. Kevin is involved in this project with me, along with a few other choice individuals.

The majority of this project will be free. Brand new content will have a temporary donation required. those donations will go to fund hosting and storage for the project. I'd like to stress that if anyone wants to step forward and pay for the hosting and storage, they are welcome to do so. That will enable us to publish content for free.

[gamephoeoenix]

My site a precursor to what to expect? In part absolutely.

Will there be huge releases of sets of 1,000 slides or more? You bet!

Will they be free? Not at first.

Will older material be released as free as new material comes out? Absolutely.

Will fees be high? Well currently I charge $5.00 for 4,134 slides so you tell me.

Will there be free HT SlideVision content released for free on day one? You better believe it! How much and exactly what? For sure Superman & Underworld, and one franchises films slides from Star Wars & James Bond (exact film Based on poll data).

As for the nay Sayers, their only focused on the negatives and none of the positives. RagnaroktA and I will be using our combined experience to help improve our slide creation techniques. With Bry, an XBMC developer we will ensure they are easily installed and implemented into XMBC Cinema Experience.

IMO there is a huge demand for new pre-show content and very few creating it. I'm hoping this move will help change that. Personally I'd like to offer a creator's stater pack of tools and guides for new creators. At some point I'd like to retire while still having access to new content free or by pay, it really doesn't bother me either way. Don't get me wrong there are a few scattered creators who release 100 very impressive slides or so every few years, but no where near the volume I'd like to add to my Home Theater pe-show rotations.

To those out there that do create slides for free. Thank you for your time and effort and community spirit. No one other than another developer can understand the amount of work you put into your creations. The ridiculous amount of time it takes to create them, the massive headaches you get proofreading them, the constant strive for perfection. We at Cinema-Vision solute you and you have our support in anyway we can provide it.

I've been creating slides since June of 2011 with little to no feedback from XMBC developers, other slide creators or the AVS/XMBC community. I'm hoping this joint effort will put me more in touch with what the community wants while improving the quality, and integration of slides I release.

[Ragnarok]

Alright everyone! The new project is up and running, check the first post of this thread for details.

[gamephoeoenix]

Over the last few weeks I’ve been working on a complete face-lift of the HT SlideVison collection getting it ready for rollout on the new website. The project is now named Leitmotif , the changes made pertain to picture brightness and text clarity.

In the past when making slides I dimmed the background picture just enough to make the text stand out enough to be easily read. The amount of dimming required varied depending on the background image. While working on the James Bond collections I was given advice by Polargeek from the AVS forum to outline the text to make it stand out better. This made a world of difference and little to no dimming was required.

It’s taken me about eight hours to apply the change to all previous SlideVision slides and about forty hours to update all the videos of the slides in preparation of the DVD release. In the coming weeks I will be working on putting RagnaroktA’s slides to video in preparation for his DVD release.


Once all this is completed our next step will be to start on a new set. If you haven’t gone to the website and voted on what you would like us to release next be sure to do so before we get started on which ever projects are voted highest.

In regards to free content all RagnaroktA’s original free content has been released for free once more. From HT SlideVision I have released Superman, Underworld and the James Bond Sean Connery collection.

[SlackMaster]

Much love and respect for you Peebs in what you've added to the community... and I hope you continue to do so. However, in this instance I have to disagree with you. I don't see these guys as two monopoly guys with monocles doing Scrooge McDuff dives into their pits of money. Seems like they're a couple of dedicated media enthusiasts who genuinely want to help the community.

I don't think of it so much as me paying for the slides as paying for the convenience of having them all nicely packed, curated, and readily available in one location. The fact that they're going to be adding new content and providing links to free content and other creator's content (for free) is a plus. There may be other content creators out there that would create for the community but don't want to bother with hosting the content. This way, they can make the content and perhaps these fellas will be willing to host it for them.

As someone who has spent countless hours scouring the forums looking for current links and pulling everything you need into one place, I can definitely see the value of this site to the community.

If they were charging a huge fee for something that is free and ONLY providing content that's already been created by others, I'd probably agree with you. I think this is going to shape up to be more than that though.

Game... Rag... keep on fellas, I think the site will be a great resource if you continue to do things in the spirit of providing great content to people who love this hobby.