[scarecrow420]

Its probably been mentioned a million times but I'd love to have a series link feature to record the same program each week.

A simple name search and record in the EPG could do the trick.

IMO we dont want XBMC to do the series linking per se - that's a job for the backends (and indeed some/most backends already have series linking functinoality). What we DO want is XBMC to have the GUI/API support to allow the user to indicate they want a series recording, and pass that flag back to the backend. Optional would be a way to show (via asking the backend) a list of all the currently scheduled items for that given series.

In our addon (pvr.wmc) we do the series linking via a custom dialog that pops up in XBMC when you select to do a recording, but this isnt as user friendly since 2 dialog popups are involved when making a recording (the default XBMC yes/no one, followed by our custom one). It also means that we have to get skinners to implement our custom dialogs, limiting the skins users can use or just creating overhead in trying to get the popular skins to implement the dialog. I believe some of the other front/backend combos may also do similar, to achieve series linking.

So what we want from XBMC PVR is to standardise/officialise the process, but not try and run it all itself

[advocate99]

I suggest the ability to skip forward/back x hours in EPG.

This would work similar to how the FF/REW works now, where you can type a number and then right arrow and jump forward by that amount of time.

In the EPG, it could be hours based (instead of minutes as it is in playback). If you press 8 and then the right arrow, you'd go forward 8 hours.

Also, FF/RW buttons while in EPG could make you back and forward one-day a time.

[scarecrow420]

People have already requested that typing numbers on the EPG jumps to that channel, so you wouldnt be able to use them as a time input. I dont think you need to be able to support a user inputted amount of hours, just having a 24 hour (or perhaps 12 hour) EPG jump when pressing RW/FF would be enough. Perhaps AdvancedSettings.xml can have a key to specify what the EPG jump amount should be, just like you can set what the video playback bigstep/smallstep amounts are

[advocate99]

you can easily do both.

if you press a number and then up or down it can change the channel.

if you press a number and then left or right it can go forward or backward that many hours

[scarecrow420]

I dont feel that is particularly user friendly or intuitive though. Most other PVR implementations would simply have typing numbers take you to that channel. How many users would be confused if they start typing a number, then decide to try and navigate the grid, and suddenly skip 3 hours ahead etc? We need to design things for average users rather than power users. Average users dont need to skip 7 hours in the EPG grid, but they do need a way to jump to channel 800 easily and they do need a way to jump 24 hours easily

[advocate99]

Dish Network (here in the U.S.) has millions of customers and their PVRs operate the way that I've suggested.

Here in the U.S., channel numbers can be between 1 and 3 digits long, so there's no way to be taken to a channel number while in the EPG without waiting for a timeout period.

If you wanted, you could have a person who types a channel number and waits the timeout go to that channel, but if the user hits the left or right arrow during that period, it moves the guide.

Any user who encountered this feature by accident, by typing 3 and then the right arrow, would likely be pleased to have discovered it.

[advocate99]

I guess I should add that it is quite common here in the U.S. for people to record shows only during primetime, from 8:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m.

Typically, I check the guide listings once a week, on Sunday, and check for the whole week to see if any new shows are airing.

I start by looking at Monday, 8:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m.
Then I do the same for Tuesday.
Then I do the same for Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday.

Having the ability to easily skip to the next day would be a huge time saver over holding the right arrow and watching the times fly by, and inevitably going too far or not enough (and often both).

I dont feel that is particularly user friendly or intuitive though. Most other PVR implementations would simply have typing numbers take you to that channel. How many users would be confused if they start typing a number, then decide to try and navigate the grid, and suddenly skip 3 hours ahead etc? We need to design things for average users rather than power users. Average users dont need to skip 7 hours in the EPG grid, but they do need a way to jump to channel 800 easily and they do need a way to jump 24 hours easily

[xhaggi]

i agree that we should add an ACTION (perhaps RW/FF) to skip a day, i'll put this on my TODO.

[scarecrow420]

Having the ability to easily skip to the next day would be a huge time saver over holding the right arrow and watching the times fly by, and inevitably going too far or not enough (and often both).

I dont feel that is particularly user friendly or intuitive though. Most other PVR implementations would simply have typing numbers take you to that channel. How many users would be confused if they start typing a number, then decide to try and navigate the grid, and suddenly skip 3 hours ahead etc? We need to design things for average users rather than power users. Average users dont need to skip 7 hours in the EPG grid, but they do need a way to jump to channel 800 easily and they do need a way to jump 24 hours easily

Yes, I agree wtih a +/- 24hour EPG skip (xhaggi confirms this is now on TODO list). What i was saying is typing in a number then hitting left/right to skip a "custom" number of hours in the EPG. I find that to be not very applicable to most people's use cases. Are you saying dish network has this?

[Talguy]

Here in the U.S., channel numbers can be between 1 and 3 digits long, so there's no way to be taken to a channel number while in the EPG without waiting for a timeout period.

My comcast service in the U.S. has channels numbers in the 1000's. All HD channels on my services are channel 1000+

I guess I should add that it is quite common here in the U.S. for people to record shows only during primetime, from 8:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m.

Typically, I check the guide listings once a week, on Sunday, and check for the whole week to see if any new shows are airing.

I start by looking at Monday, 8:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m.
Then I do the same for Tuesday.
Then I do the same for Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday.

Having the ability to easily skip to the next day would be a huge time saver over holding the right arrow and watching the times fly by, and inevitably going too far or not enough (and often both).

I agree with you. I record Formula 1 races which their aire time very depending on where they are in the world and if its a day, evening or night race. My comcast DVR had the feature where it used the 30sec skip forward/ backwards buttons to skip to the next day in the week (i.e. Tuesday 8am -> Wednesday 8am). So being about to skip +/-24hrs (pressing the skip back button with in the first 24hrs of the guide will take you to the present/Now part of the guide) is very useful for quickly navigating horizontally through the guide if planning to set a recording timer for a broadcast in the future.

i agree that we should add an ACTION (perhaps RW/FF) to skip a day, i'll put this on my TODO.

Thanks xhaggi. This would be great if it gets implemented, as it is a very useful feature

[xhaggi]

what do you expect if we don't have a previous/next day, while skipping +/-24h .. jumping to begin/end ?

[Talguy]

what do you expect if we don't have a previous/next day, while skipping +/-24h .. jumping to begin/end ?

Do you mean if our Guide only has a single day's (24hrs) forth of data? Then I would think jumping to the beginning/end is acceptable.

[advocate99]

How about this:

When you start pressing number buttons while in the EPG, you see the following text:

Press Left/Right to move the guide by the number of hours
Wait x seconds or press Up/Down to move to the channel number.

That way, it'd be user friendly and the feature would be there.

Alternatively, if we just do the FF/REW skip one day, please add an advanced feature allowing us to customize the number of hours for the skip. I might prefer to see a 12 hour option, while others might want an 8 hour option.

I'd be willing to put up a bounty to get this done sooner (if that's something we do here).

Having the ability to easily skip to the next day would be a huge time saver over holding the right arrow and watching the times fly by, and inevitably going too far or not enough (and often both).

I dont feel that is particularly user friendly or intuitive though. Most other PVR implementations would simply have typing numbers take you to that channel. How many users would be confused if they start typing a number, then decide to try and navigate the grid, and suddenly skip 3 hours ahead etc? We need to design things for average users rather than power users. Average users dont need to skip 7 hours in the EPG grid, but they do need a way to jump to channel 800 easily and they do need a way to jump 24 hours easily

Yes, I agree wtih a +/- 24hour EPG skip (xhaggi confirms this is now on TODO list). What i was saying is typing in a number then hitting left/right to skip a "custom" number of hours in the EPG. I find that to be not very applicable to most people's use cases. Are you saying dish network has this?

---

My point was that there's no uniformity in the channel length and so there would have to be a delay time between the pressing of the last number and the action of going to the channel. During that time, if the user hit left/right, the number could be interpreted as a # of hours instead of a channel number...

My comcast service in the U.S. has channels numbers in the 1000's. All HD channels on my services are channel 1000+

[Talguy]

ok so here is my opinion as a heavy Live TV user who has never used Dish Network method you mentioned. I can see its usefulness and how it gives you the percisions in navigating the EPG horizontally, however the basic user and I would even say myself will probably not end up using it. Reason being is its too many action you have to perform in a certain amount of time while also doing math to determine how man hours you need to type in to get to 3 days from now. If its not based on hours but days I don't think its any different than hitting the skip button a few times to get to the day you're looking for. This brings up a question on how Dish Network handles this action. Is the numeric input based on hours or days?


Most users want to perform an action in 1 click and want that action to be executed immediate, not wait for a timer to expire and then execute. Me personally I don't mind hitting the skip button to jump from day to day in the EPG and then the left or right hour a few more times to get to the time slot I'm looking for, but thats me. The solution is basic and very simple for any user to use. I will agree with you that if the basic solution gets implemented it would be nice that we can make it tunable through the advanced settings file based on hours, with the default skip being 24hrs.

This is my personal opinion and I'm not trying to argue. Just trying to create a constructive discussion on the best approach to be taken before anyone attempts to implement the feature into XBMC.

Edit: advocate99 was referencing Dish Network not DirecTV corrected accordingly

[advocate99]

Talguy,

Thanks for your input. I think there's some confusion about what I'm saying, so please allow me to clarify. I'm proposing the following:

1. While in the EPG, UP/DOWN/LEFT/RIGHT will work the same way that they always do. They will be one-touch.
2. While in the EPG, FF/REW will allow skipping ahead or back 24 hours by default, with the option to change 24 to something else in advancedsettings.xml. This will also be one-touch.
3. While in the EPG, if you punch in a number and then hit enter, up, or down, or wait for the timeout, you'll be taken to that channel number in the guide.
4. While in the EPG, if you punch in a number and then hit left/right, you'll go forward or backward that number of hours.

In response to your comment about not wanting to wait for a timeout, there's no way to provide channel number functionality without having a timeout. Channel numbers can vary from 1 to 5 digits. If you punch in a channel number and want to be taken to that channel, you're either going to have to wait for a timer to expire, or you're going to have to hit a confirmation key, such as the up/down or enter keys. That's just the way of the world. For example, here in L.A., I can choose to watch Channel 2, which is 1 digit, or I can watch 2.1, which is two digits. Or I can watch 28.4, which is three digits. When I push 2, XBMC has now way of knowing if I want to watch Channel 2, or channel 28.4, unless it waits for a timeout or I hit a confirmation key like Enter, up, or down. Because there is no universal agreed upon length for how long a channel number can be, there's no getting around this.

With my suggestions, you'll still be able to hit a single key and get a result. If you hit up/down/left/right, you'll get an immediate response, just as you do now. If you hit FF/REW, you'll also get an immediate response (one day in either direction). However, as I've noted above, there is NO WAY to get an immediate response when you type in a number. If you choose to go that route, you'll have to wait for a timeout or hit a confirmation key. That's just the way the world works.

Since we have to have a timeout or confirmation key, there's no reason not to allow other confirmation keys to do other things, i.e. to allow left/right to do hours while up/down/enter does channel number. If you never use the feature, you'll never even notice the difference.

XBMC currently supports a very similar feature when you are watching a video. Did you know that while you're watching a show, you can punch in numbers and then RIGHT/LEFT and be taken forward or backward by that number of seconds and minutes? In other words, if you're watching a 2 hour movie, you can type in 3000 RIGHT and you'll jump forward 30 minutes. You may not have know that this works, and now that you know, you may never use it. But, the feature is there, right now, and I use it all the time.

Why not provide the same feature for EPG

I referenced Dish Network, and not DirecTV. I don't have any idea how DirecTV works. I don't think that DirecTV even allows skip forward 30 seconds, or skip back 10, because they are afraid of alienating advertisers.

FYI- 3 days is 72 hours. So, if you want to skip ahead 3-days, you'd hit 72 RIGHT, and you'll be there. 2 days is 48 hours. Most of the time, I find myself going ahead or 12 hours at a time. If I want to do more than a day, I'd use the one-day button until I got to the day, and then xx hours to get to the time.