[jalyst]

I need one PCI slot (or at least a PCIe that I can convert to PCI) for my Essence ST 7.1
And one PCIe should I decide to upgrade the video decode abilities later w/GT2xx.

I actually wanted to go with an ION board but so far I've not found any with more than one standard PCI/e slot.
Except for this which isn't strictly an ION board as it has a dual-core Atom but no 9400M IGP.
http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWebSite/Product...29&LanID=0

So far the best ITX board I've found has one mini-PCIE and one 16x PCI-e.
So it's looking unlikely that I'll find an ITX board with any-more than one standard PCI/e, unless anyone knows of any?!

I guess I could get some kind of PCI/e riser that splits the 16x into one 8x & two 4x OR two 8x?
Then I could find some kind of converter that turns one of these slots into PCI 2.2?
I believe they do exist, but they may only work with 1x or 4x PCIe, not 100% sure.
Or maybe even something that converts the mini-PCIe into PCI?

But it just gets too complicated I think, sigh dunno....

I can't believe there's no ION boards for the mATX form-factor! I mean...
Looking at the specs of the ION there's certainly a lot more room for expandability than what mITX can realistically accommodate!

Maybe I should just get a mATX geforce 9400 mobo OR an mATX Intel G4x/P4x mobo + GT 2xx?
Lot more grunt that isn't necessarily needed, but I think it'll mean less pain in the end.

This is for a Linux-based Media front-end, I already have a back-end for capturing/transcoding/compiling etc.
Sorry for the verbal diarrhoea, what do you all reckon is the best approach?

Cheers

[Tarantulas]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...-_-Product

Get a PCI-E to PCI adaptor... you're set.

But I'd recommend just using the board and dropping your PCI audio card... unless you're a nutty autophile person... in which case, do whatever you feel is best.

[jalyst]

Thanks but I'm a nutty audiophile person :-)
So I need one PCI & one PCI-E for future GT2xx or similar.
Anyone else? Much appreciated.

[jalyst]

Anyone else? Thanks.

[davilla]

You need to look beyond ITX motherboard form factor. It only supports one "slot" pci or pci-e. The only other way is a one pci slot to dual pci slot adapter. See http://www.logicsupply.com, they have lot's of funky adapters.

[jalyst]

Thanks,

But apparently there has to be support in the BIOS for a one to many conversion like this on a pciE slot.
And apparently the PCIE spec. doesn't allow for it:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthrea...st17685171

Plus it think it'll get too messy all up anyway, so I'm just going for mATX boards/cases.
So of my mATX suggestions in my orig. post, which chipset/mobo would you go for?

Thanks

[jalyst]

Okay, so I'm going to get a mobo based on one of Intel's series 4 chipsets w/IGP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_chipsets

So which should I get: G41,G43,G45,Q43, or Q45?*
Most of them seem to have only minor architectural differences except for G41.

It can be ruled out as it has too many significant deficits:
8gb V 16gb ram, ICH7 (which is ancient) V ICH10x, pre v2.0 PCIe, & it isn't much cheaper.

Is x4500HD significantly better than x4500 in any way?
Can VT-d be of use for a device that will be a media player/front-end?
Of ICH10/ICH10R/ICH10D/ICH10-DO which is most useful?

Does anyone know if CULV is available in a socketed format instead of BGA?
Or at least soldered onto a Intel mATX motherboard that's available stand-alone instead of w/a laptop?

I've decided I'll be getting a GT 2xx for video duties.

Cheers
*B43 is on wikipedia but doesn't seem to exist anywhere on Intel's site so it's scratched.
http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/ch...ody+dt_all
http://www.intel.com/products/embedded/c...all&s3=all
http://www.intel.com/products/server/chi...all&s3=all

[jalyst]

The top GPU in the low-end (40nm/dx10.1) GT 2xx series is the GT 240 right? [aka GT215]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDPAU#Table_of_NVIDIA_GPUs

It doesn't surpass the 220 [aka GT216] in-terms of video assistance, only 3d acceleration right?
Does anyone know where all the exact differences are documented?

Would the GT 240 be better than the 9600GT for 3d acceleration?
Does it draw much more & run hotter than the 220 as a result, or only when gaming?

With these Intel IGP chipsets; does the IGP switch-off entirely if a discrete card's inserted?

[jalyst]

For a Linux-based Media front-end?
- X4500HD vs X4500: Does not matter, I think. "HD" supports hardware decode acceleration for H.264/VC-1, but there is no linux driver supporting it?
- 16GB vs 8GB memory support: Does not matter at all. 2GB is enough.
- VT-d: Are you running HTPC as a VM? I don't think it works well.
- ICH10 vs ICH7: At least two more SATA ports.

X4500HD sounds unneeded then, as the discrete card will take care of this.
Might be handy as a back-up in Windows if the discrete dies though?

The difference in price is negligible, so I may as well get a mobo that supports 16GB RAM, even if I never use it.

Good point Re VT-d, it's best suited for a X58 + Core i7 + heaps of RAM in a server env. etc.
As this is meant to be a dedicated media front-end, I can't see any handy use for it.

I believe ICH10R adds firmware raid functions which I think are mostly irrelevant for my usage (I'll have a dedicated NAS/PVR).
But what about ICH10D & ICH10-D0, what do they bring?
W.R.T ICH10 Vs ICH7; I'm pretty sure there's more significant differences, I will investigate further.

What's your budget for mb? G45 > $100 (many good G45 mb have been discontiuned; LGA1156 is coming soon), G43 < $90. If you decided to go for GeForce GT 220/240, spending money on G45 is not a good idea, IMO.

I suppose....

Why pay extra $ for the G45 when the only thing it offers above the G43 is the X4500HD?
Particularly considering that the discrete will do everything the HD does and more!?

The X4500 would still be fine as a back-up if the discrete dies...
It's not as though it or the X4500HD would remain as the primary GPU in that scenario anyway!

So that rules out G45 then.

[jalyst]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I/O_Controller_Hub
Yep page 44....
http://www.intel.com/assets/pdf/datasheet/319973.pdf

ICH10D is the same as ICH10DO except that:
1) It doesn't have Intel Matrix RAID.
2) It's version of Intel AMT is more basic.

Both these SB are unique in that they have:
1) Intel TPM
2) JTAG boundary scan
3) Intel AMT

ICH10 is the same as ICH10R except that:
1) It doesn't have Intel Turbo Mem.
2) It may or may not have AHCI
3) It doesn't have Intel Matrix RAID

Both these SB are unique in that they have:
1) Wake on VoIP
2) Intel ViiV
3) Intel RWT

ICH7 family data-sheet
http://www.intel.com/assets/pdf/datasheet/307013.pdf

To my mind none of these features are necessary....
But ICH10 as-a-whole has seen other improvements (as evidenced in the sheets/wiki) since ICH7.

I'm almost settled on G45, it just depends on whether X4500HD + ICH10/R is more useful than:

X4500 + ICH10DO [Intel TPM + JTAG BS + Intel VT-d + Intel Matrix + Intel AMT 5.x Pro] (Q45)

I'm going to embed links to all the features I'm uncertain about...
So I can get a picture of what exactly they all are, and make an informed decision from there.

As I recall things like: TPM, JTAG BS, VT-d, & AMT also depend on the OEM I buy from.
Some non-Intel mobo makers don't include or provide subsequent updates for them via their BIOS img.

[jalyst]

Actually most implementations of g43 are more limited than officially stated.
Intel's site itself contains lots of conflicting info...

I've looked at differences in prices for g43/45 boards locally and it's no more than $20 Ausd on avg.
Just to be safe I'm moving to g45.....

I'm also scratching Q43 so that leaves only G45/Q45 as finalists, see prior post.

[Sheezwack]

Have you looked into a G41 board with a X4500? I wonder what the limits of that board are, but Gigabyte has one. 775 Socket and all.

I'm considering trying that out, and if the X4500 isn't good enough throwing a GT220 in it.

I don't know how good drivers are for the X4500 though.
- Does it do Audio over HDMI, 7.1 LCMP?
- Does it do VDPAU in linux

etc.

[jalyst]

If you see my earlier posts you'll see why I personally have ruled G41 out...

Even though it's more than good enough for a media front-end, I may re-purpose the chosen motherboard eventually.
And considering the G41 isn't hugely cheaper than the G45 where I am, then I consider g45 a better buy.

The IGP on both is not good enough for video, & shit for gaming of any sort.
If you look at one of my earlier posts, you'll see I'm still trying to decide which GT 2xx to get.

VDPAU is for nV cards, as far as I'm aware, there is no driver support for X4500 series in Linux.
Should run fine in Windows...

no idea about audio

[Sheezwack]

Hmm most stuff I have read indicates that the X4500 is decent for video. Obviously not for gaming, but you wouldn't bother building a HTPC that did gaming as well normally.

What G45 motherboard are you looking at? The problem is availability as well. There was a good Gigabyte motherboard with a GF9400 on it but we didn't get it at all in AUS.

The only (LGA775) G45 motherboard I have seen is the Intel DG45FC Mini-ITX, and thats a good $55 more expensive than the G41 motherboard.

Of course I'm aiming for LGA775 so that limits me a little.

I see some reasons why you have ruled out the G41, but I don't see how they apply to a HTPC? You will never need more than 8gig of ram, and you will probably never use pcie 2.0 bandwidth for a HTPC.

Also are you aware of the Audio over HDMI problems with the Gxxx series at the moment? I'm still trying to find out if its just a linux problem, or if it doesn't work on windows as well.

[jalyst]

X4500xx is decent on Windows, not Linux.

I'm in Oz, if you want a gf9400 solution then you want
http://www.xpmediacentre.com.au/communit...-t2rs.html
It's pretty much our only solution unless you want to import...

But the IGP for the gf9300/9400 is now dated, the latest gt 2xx discretes have better video abilities.
Hence the reason I'm getting Intel IGP mobo + GT 2xx.

I'm not really at the stage of looking a specific mobo's, I'm still deciding on Q45 or G45 chipsets.
But mobo's based on these chipsets that'd prolly be in the running:
http://www.staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/sear...-S2&spos=3
http://www.staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/sear...D2H&spos=1

I compared pricing between g43 and g45 mobo's, I'm sure there's even more of a diff. between g41 & g45.
$50 sounds about right, but that Intel mobo prolly carries a premium (a) because it's Intel (b) because it's mini-ITX.

If you look at my original posts I don't want to discuss mini-ITX boards, as they don't offer enough expandability.