[atsumori]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone knew of a good, Windows-based XBMC PVR setup that will work in Japan. What I basically need is a good internal PCIe card/software setup, so any recommendations would be appreciated as long as they match the following:

-Support ISDB-T (The Japanese HDTV standard) in HD (1080i) with recording
-Include the necessary B-CAS card for using with Japanese TV
-Work with XBMC
-Work on Windows
-Perform decently

I've searched everywhere for a PCIe card supported by the major PVR software programs supported by XBMC, but most of the software listed does not support ISDB-T, so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[sub3]

From what I read, I think ISDB-T tuners typically have drivers that pretend to be DVB-T devices, so just work with software that support DVB-T. That's the case China's DMB-T as well.

That said, I don't have any first-hand experience with ISDB-T. (I have tested DMB-T with NextPVR though, and it worked fine with the app thinking it was a DVB-T device)

[atsumori]

Thanks, that's should make things a lot easer than I was expecting. Thank you for the info!

[atsumori]

After much effort I can report back that there is no way to get native XBMC PVR support in Japan (though no animosity to sub3 at all, I really appreciate you responding). All non-cable/satellite TV in Japan is digital/terrestrial broadcast, and all digital/terrestrial broadcasts in Japan are copy-once copy protected (1seg may be different, I haven't tried it). Therefore your options are:

For Easy PVR:
If you are content with using Windows Media Center and you only need access from one computer, you can buy a Plex px-w3pe series card (maybe the PT3 might work?) and install the default PBDA drivers, which will allow WMC to access the card normally, show TV, use the EPG, and let you record. You won't, however, be able to access the video streams from XBMC (or from anything but WMC on the computer you recorded on) so you won't be able to use the WMC plugin in XBMC. I guess you can try using advanced launcher to run WMC whenever you want to watch TV.

For A More Open PVR:
Install by the same card and install the BDA drivers. There are ways to get around the copy protection with the BDA drivers, though you'll need to use separate programs to:

• Watch TV (with no pausing of live TV)
  
• Record/Schedule TV
  

Also, you'll need to be pretty good with Japanese as you'll be using Japan-only tools for everything (and looking at Japanese sites for help). I can't link you to the tools, but try looking for "px-w3pe" (the name of the capture card) and you should find some help.

Alas, the only option for native XBMC support would be to either a) start recording a stream and then stream that to XBMC which can be hideously messy or B) have someone write a plugin for the more commonly used Japanese TV tools.

[atsumori]

Small update, this time with good news. There have been some developments on the Japanese front since I last looked--some of which I have tried, some of which I have not.

There are two main open TV capture cards in Japan, the Plex PX series (px-w3pe etc) and the Earthsoft PT2/PT3 series (There are a couple of others, but those are the main ones).

For the Plex cards, there is now (and I guess has been) a modified version of the PBDA driver that will not protect the video feed. I cannot link to the driver for obvious reasons, but if you know Japanese, try doing a Google search for it and it should come up. Install that driver (you'll need to fiddle a bit as it's unsigned) and you can use the card with Windows Media Center, and stream WMC to XBMC through the serverWMC plugin. I can verify that this does, in fact work.

For the PT2/PT3 cards, someone has adapted the Bon series drivers for use with MediaPortal. Look for MediaPortal_Bon and follow the directions and I think that should get you set up with the MediaPortal backend though I don't have this card so I can't test it.

[gaijinboricua]

Atsumori,

Sorry for bringing this thread back form the dead. I am currently in talks with the Silicon dust team as they are testing a ISDB-T tuner. As for the Plex tuner, could you PM me about the driver.

Thanks.

[gaijinboricua]

Atsumori,

Thanks for reaching out. Weirdly enough, I can't send you PMs. I will follow up with all information provided and report back in the next few months about my findings. thanks.

[atsumori]

Huh, that's weird about PMs. Amywho, hope it helps! Looking forward to seeing what you find.

[Ryoko227]

Necro in full force, apologies for that. However, it would seem that the content in this thread and my post/questions are related and therefore relevant.

It seems that production for the PT2/PT3 cards are coming to an end that there are only a few other options for open cards that don't implement the copy-once system. Quite a few of those cards do not have B-CAS card readers, and none of them seem to come with a B-CAS card. All of which has left me very fuzzy on what is actually required to setup a backend that will play through Kodi. If I'm reading the sites correctly, all devices require a B-CAS card to decrypt incoming video, and that tuners that do not implement the copy-once system are not given these cards. It also seems that end users do not retain actual ownership of the B-CAS card and while cards appear to be interchangeable, it is technically a "violation of contract" to put them into a different device. Am I correct on that part?

If the B-CAS is needed to even view the incoming video, why do only some of the tuners come with a card reader?
Do the tuner cards without a card reader require a separately purchased card reader to decrypt the video?
Since the time of this original posting, have some of the other major pvr addons and backend software packages been able to reliably watch, record, and replay Japanese TV with ISDB-T?

Ultimately what I'm looking to do is plop a TV tuner card into my unRAID server, push the signal to my VM clients running Kodi, and be able to record and watch shows again later like any normal TV tuner card. Will a "compliant" turner card that comes with a B-CAS card be able to do that, or will the video be unplayable due to the copy-once system like atsumori mentioned above?

[atsumori]

You need the B-CAS card to receive and decrypt the digital signal. Manufacturers need to be licensed to distribute B-CAS cards so typically, if your capture card comes with a B-CAS card it will only support the approved copy-once method. If you only plan to watch the shows on the system with the card installed, the copy-once method will work for you, but if you want to serve video to your phone and other PCs you need to do it the hard/gray way.

The PT and plex cards do not come with B-CAS cards, but you will still need one to receive TV--the easiest way is to buy a separate cheap video capture system that includes one (3000yen for mine) and then move the B-CAS card to you plex or pt capture card. (The B-CAS cards are all interchangeable, I don't think it's a violation of contract to use them in a separate device though I'm not sure. Haven't had any issues). I don't know why the pt cards don't even include a reader (probably money) as they do need one, you just have to buy a separate B-CAS reader dongle to attach to the PT card anyway.

And no, there aren't any major changes that have occurred since my last post that I know of. Easiest way is stil Microsoft Media Center though you're limited to one device. To do what you want though your best bet is to start with a pt or plex card and then start with the fan wiki for either card. That should introduce you to the necessary software and settings you need, though God save you if you don't speak Japanese.

[Ryoko227]

Thank you very much atsumori for your quick response and wealth of info!

Out of curiousity, which cheapy vid cap would you recommend? I'm checking out kakaku and not finding much on the 3,000yen range.

[atsumori]

I bought an IO-Data HVTR-VTL for around 3000 yen a few years ago from Bic but it doesn't look like they make them anymore and what is made is expensive. I'd try just going to Bic or Yamada and asking if they have a cheap TV tuner in stock. They were pretty ubiquitous a few years ago when Japan went all-digital TV so they might have something old laying around.

[Ryoko227]

Well, after a ridiculous amount of reading. I'm here with a kind of update/addition.

So, it seems most people are using programs called TVTest & TVRock to access the tuners for watching and recording, but that doesn't seem to help us with getting the stream into Kodi. Using the WMC option also isn't really what I'm looking for as I'd have to have access the serving side to setup recording, etc., when I'm looking for something headless that lets me access recording, EPG, etc. from the Kodi frontend. I started looking into some of the English based server software, and it looks like TVheadend is/has added ISDB-T support to their server software in their "unstable" releases. I've only just started to look into it, so there may be other serving software out there that has added this functionality as well, but I am a complete noob when it comes to all of this and am truly learning as I go.

As Brazil's digital TV system is/was strongly based on Japan's, there seems to be a push for this functionality in TVheadend. Even more promising is its being more focused towards being used with Kodi via addon. I'll obviously have to do ALOT more reading and probably make a few posts over on their boards, but here is hoping.

Also, in relation to B-CAS cards; they can actually be issued directly from B-CAS for 2050円 per card. The purpose (stipulation) being that they are intended to only be used as replacements for lost, broken, or stolen cards. As such, a request cannot be made for a new card to be use in a product that was never issued one from the manufacture. The example used on the site was something akin to buying a used TV/device that for some reason was missing its B-CAS card. So enter gray zone here.

I also came across some videos supposedly showing tuners/software that do not require B-CAS cards at all, but since that circumvents the encryption completely after the fact, it would seem to be entering the black zone.

[atsumori]

I wasn't able to do anything with software from the Brazil market (I don't think they use B-CAS cards) and wasn't able to get anything working with existing real software like TVheadend a couple of years ago but hopefully that's changed. TVRock I couldn't get to work but if you can find older versions of TVtest, that will let you view live Tv and record (though I don't think schedule). You can also use it to view scrambled CS channels but that is pure black area.

I hear spinel is good for pvr scheduling and streaming of broadcasts to other devices but I couldn't get it to work correctly. I use EDCB (EggDataCapBon?) which is rudimentary but oddly reliable (though sometimes it will record unrelated shows.

Everything I mentioned above is a complete pain in the ass to setup, so definitely use a wiki to learn more and find the right versions. Also, word of advice, get a card with as many tuners as you can afford. Mine only has two and I really wish I got more. You'll need a tuner for every show you record simultaneously (which happens a lot if you record back to back shows as you'll need to record a little before and after). You also won't be able to switch between formats (Regular TV, BS, CS) without restarting your recording software, so, with a card like mine with two tuners you have to choose between recording TV and BS or being able to record two programs at once.

[benmoran]

Is using Linux totally out of the question? There is a very nice standalone DVR called Chinachu, which also has a Kodi PVR plugin (that is not yet in the repos). You can find the Chinachu PVR plugin here: https://github.com/mzyy94/pvr.chinachu
This has full EPG, live TV, etc. If your main Kodi box is Windows, it's possible to set up Linux/Chinachu + tuners on something like a Raspberry Pi or spare PC.

For tuners, I've used personally the Earthsoft PT3 (which has 2xchideji, and 2xBS tuners). For usb chideji, the Plex PX-S1UD is a fantastic single tuner stick. A few of these in a USB hub would work great with Chinachu.